Fred Reed: "Is Military Service Honorable?"

[Grapple]

We have a nuclear deterrent, an air force, and a navy that prevent any real military force from attacking the US. .

I would not be so sure about the US Navy’s ability to defend the US considering how it is set up today and in fact for last fifty years.

I was in the Navy on four different ships and the whole Navy is setup for overseas operations. While in the US most ships are short on crew, munitions and funds for supplies. It is not until you start getting ready for overseas deployment that you are brought up to full strength on crew, munitions and funding.

If you ever see a US Navy base such as Norfolk or San Diego you will see lots of US Navy ships lining the piers yet in fact most of those ships are barely armed and have only a token amount of ammo on board. Even during the Cold War when I was on a destroyer and a frigate we hardly ever even ran anti-sub operation off US coast and then only to get qualified for overseas deployment. In fact we had so few weapons on board that if war had broken out during one of these training exercises we would have had to sail back into port just to load up ammo to be able to fight.

And this is not just a Navy policy, I have talked to Army, Marines, Air Force and for the most part they are set up the same way. The US is only a training and supply base for US overseas operations, most military forces in the US are in the same state as the US Navy with low priority for men, ammo and supplies and its only when getting ready for deployment that you are brought up to full strength.

The US military has basically given up defending the US, it is set up to defend the US world wide “interests”. Those interests being the interests of the globalist politicians and business that control the US government and of course with special exceptions for our best friend in the Middle East, Israel.

[Angler]

Interesting points, Grapple.

[roho]

Here is where the weapons went?

http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/35722

[Frank]

What are soldiers today keeping us safe from? Iraqis and the Taliban are no threat to us.

If the US crumbles, it'll be nonwhites within the US to fear. And similarly if crime continues to grow, defense could become necessary.

Power rests with all who are armed, including soldiers, police, and especially the many millions of armed citizens. But power alone is not worthy of respect.

I meant that as "soldier". One can't do one's duty as well without power. Those with power are the ones who may even decide right and wrong - the others may think and say as they please, but they're nevertheless at the mercy of those with power.

I don't agree that military training is necessary to know how to fight except in the context of ordinary conventional warfare, which is almost certainly not the kind of struggle any of us could ever need to engage in to protect what is important to us. What people should be studying is guerrilla warfare, improvised explosives and detonation systems, and other such things -- and many people do. But of course Earley scoffs at such people, smugly thinking to himself that willingness and preparation to resist a foe with arms is "fantasy" unless one is a member of ZOG's legions.

I assumed guerrilla warfare was what he was recommending people train for in case the US ever does collapse.

[roho]

Our ZOG is counting on the hispanics, and blacks of the US Military to engage in an "Enthusiastic Zeal" if placed in a position to put down any civilian patriots that protest US Troops on American soil.(Posse Comitatus Act). They look forward to a return to the good old days when the US Military was killing Southern Civilians with impunity!

But times have changed in warfare? The "underdog" in todays wars, seem to be targeting "Political Leadership" more so than enemy combatants?

[edward gibbon]

Originally Posted by edward gibbon
Your stating I advocated fighting for Israel is an example of your usual lie.

It's far from a lie, as anyone can see by following your posts. For years you have been repeating the same tired line that anyone who fails to participate in US wars (or join the military, which would make him legally obligated to participate in wars) is a coward. Obviously that implies that anyone who fails to participate in US wars of aggression, including the "War on Terror" that is being fought for the benefit of Israel and the profits of "defense" contractors, is also a coward. You have made no exception for such wars.

I have noted that wars bring out character in men, not that you qualify. I supported the initial invasión of Afghanistan, not subsequent actions.

You and many others would not fight at all although there is a chance you may fight for your possessions and maybe for your life. You would prefer others doing it for you

Obviously you cannot possibly know such things about me or anyone else. And yet you accuse me of dishonesty.

You have revealed your character in your posts.

If the US military drafted you back into service tomorrow (in spite of your age and prior service) in order to have you fight side-by-side with the IDF against some Arab nation, would you do it? I'll bet you would

You would lose

So you admit that you'd be a draft-dodger. That's very interesting. On what basis, then, do you impute cowardice to other people for not participating in wars that they disagree with and that clearly have nothing to do with defending the country? Sounds like hypocrisy to me.

Would you say that anyone of military age who refused to go fight in Iraq was a coward? The Iraq war is every bit as much a war for Israel as the hypothetical war I described above.

Your childlike mind is being taxed severely. I do not support wars for Israel.

9/11 was not done by Jews

I never claimed it was, though Israeli intelligence clearly had foreknowledge of the attacks and wanted them to happen.

Nevertheless, 9/11 was largely the result of America's willingness to serve the Zionist agenda, and the entire "War on Terror" is an extension of that agenda. The Iraq war in particular was intended solely to benefit Israel. The nation's security is NOT benefitting in any way, shape, or form from the Iraq or Afghanistan wars. No matter how many troops the US has in those countries, it will not stop extremists right here in America from carrying out more attacks. But perhaps you believe the patriotard line that "we're fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here."

No, I do not believe it.

I did much more than complain about cowardice by Jews. I proved it. MY book was much more than about Jews and their faithlessness.

I haven't read your book, so I'll take your word for it. But here's a hint: maybe Jews wouldn't be able to get away with their cowardice if they didn't have legions of goyim eager to fight on their behalf -- goyim who are encouraged to "prove their manhood" by people like yourself.

Legions are not waiting to fight on behalf of Jews. Many are pressed for Money. .[/QUOTE]

You are too immature to understand much more than comic books or quasi-science.

The lack of maturity is entirely yours. You exhibit the machismo of a 15-year-old Negro whose entire self-image revolves around blabbing about how much "harder" he is than everyone else. And your stunted intellect is plainly incapable of registering the fact that people can refuse to take part in military violence for reasons other than cowardice. Not everyone has the mentality of an attack dog that merely needs to be pointed toward its master's enemy and commanded to attack.[/QUOTE]Civilized societies in ascendance have citizens willing to fight. Edward Gibbon noted that in societies in decline most have to bribed to fight.

Literature and history overwhelm you.

Really? How so?

Your ignorance is proof.

Drill instructors do a very important job. Preparing to defend yourself and kill some other person requires much training and practice.

Yes, and crushing recruits' ability to think and question is equally important in ensuring their continued loyalty and obedience when they are commanded to give their lives for those who view them as pawns. Some survive this brainwashing process and retain the ability to think critically about what the military is really being used for. Others, like yourself, remain perpetually loyal to the federal government and the plutocrats who control it.

To survive in combat you must be capable of acts performed without thought. You kid yourself if you think differently.

You should push yourself away from a computer and learn something about infantry tactics. By yourself you will continue to live in your fantasies. I suspect you prefer it that way.

Spare me the chest-thumping. Even Negroes can be taught infantry tactics.

You have no idea of loyalty other than to Money. If things do get nasty in America, you will have to be prepared to fight and not by yourself. If you would die, I would have no sympathy. You could console yourself by knowing your ideals died with you.

[Angler]

I have noted that wars bring out character in men, not that you qualify.

You think that failure to participate in a war is a sign of cowardice even if the war is one of choice and is not necessary to the nation's defense. You've stated or implied this countless times, so there's no point in denying it. Yet you admit that you would dodge a draft in a US war for the direct defense of Israel. So why are you any less a coward than someone who refuses to fight for some other reason, e.g., a simple belief that a particular war is unnecessary and immoral?

You have revealed your character in your posts.

Great! So have you. By repeatedly accusing people you have never even met of cowardice, you show yourself to be not only dishonest and downright juvenile, but very likely a coward yourself who is projecting his disappointment with himself onto others. People who are secure with themselves generally don't feel the need to constantly attack others.

Your childlike mind is being taxed severely. I do not support wars for Israel.

Why don't you make your position clear and state which wars you feel citizens have a duty to participate in?

I've given my answer to that question many times: Able-bodied males have a duty to fight when they are needed to defend their country from an existential threat. Existential threats include invasion, naval blockades, aerial bombardment, etc.

I would have no problem helping to defend America if, say, the Chinese crossed the ocean and invaded us tomorrow. As disgusted as I am with this country and especially its government, Chinese rule would be even worse, and the devil you know is often better than the devil you don't.

I would NOT fight in a war that was not necessary for the defense of this country or its vital interests, even if you could guarantee that I would come home in one piece.

But perhaps you believe the patriotard line that "we're fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here."

No, I do not believe it.

In that case, why do you take offense at those who fail to genuflect before the "brave men and women in uniform" who are fighting these pointless wars? Do I owe them something? What, and why?

Legions are not waiting to fight on behalf of Jews. Many are pressed for Money.

That makes them mercenaries, willing to selfishly kill others in order to make money for themselves. Do you find that honorable?

Civilized societies in ascendance have citizens willing to fight. Edward Gibbon noted that in societies in decline most have to bribed to fight.

The reason people need to be bribed to fight in current US wars is because only the stupidest people think those wars are actually important to the defense of this nation.

Literature and history overwhelm you.

Really? How so?

Your ignorance is proof.

Explain specifically how I have demonstrated ignorance.

To survive in combat you must be capable of acts performed without thought. You kid yourself if you think differently.

You don't need to tell me. I have survived life-threatening encounters.

You have no idea of loyalty other than to Money.

Ah, I was waiting for you to pull that one out of your ass again. It's another one of the classic bullshit lines that you keep returning to like a dog returns to its vomit. Your eagerness to slander others in a pathetic attempt to score debate points -- if this can even be called a "debate" -- reveals a lack of character one would expect from the worst of Jews.

The truth is that I have turned down lucrative engineering jobs because I refused to work for any "defense" contractors. I will not be a party to the killing of people for the benefit of Israel or company profits. I'm not like those troops you mentioned who are willing to commit immoral acts of killing for money.