OD Board > Featured Dissent > The Original Neo-Con Watch > The Lies of David Frum - Chronicles

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Okiereddust03-22-03, 20:54
Chronicles - Liberty Forum (http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat...c=1#Post513983)

We have been asked by many of our friends to respond to Frum’s fact-free account of conservative history in his recent attack on Chronicles, VDare, Lew Rockwell, Justin Raimondo, Joe Sobran, and Robert Novak. (For someone who claims to be a historian of the conservative movement, he is amazingly ignorant.) Our first reaction was: Why should we? We have nothing in common with people like Frum, and anyone who regularly reads NRO has had the equivalent of a lobotomy. But, in deference to our friends, here is a list of some of the more palpable lies and misrepresentations of David Frum.

Frum’s Lie: Chronicles rejects “the 50-year-old conservative commitment to defend American interests and values throughout the world.

The Truth: Our entire foreign-policy argument is based on defense of the American interest, which is the title of our column on foreign policy.

Frum’s Lie: All antiwar conservatives have made common cause with leftists.

Chronicles rejects such alliances and has explained why in a recent online editorial condemning both antiwar and antiglobalist demonstrators as moral anarchists.

Frum’s Lie: The late Mel Bradford’s nomination as NEH director was doomed by his writings.

The Truth: Irving Kristol organized a smear campaign against Bradford, who had considerable support on Capitol Hill, in order to put his own flunkey, William Bennett, into a position that controlled jobs and grants for other Kristol protégés. It was a classic Kristol operation that utilized the services of people like George Will, but the plot blew up in the Godfather’s face when most decent conservatives refused to have anything to do with him in the future. Kristol has said that, had he known the reaction, he would have let Bradford get the nomination.

Frum’s Lie: Chronicles founder Leopold Tyrmand survived the Nazi death camps and decided to base Chronicles in Rockford.

The Truth: Leopold was impressed as a worker but not put into a death camp, and the decision to locate both Chronicles and the Institute in Rockford was made by Rockford Institute founder, John Howard, who was the president of Rockford College.

Frum’s lie: “Fleming was . . . a poor choice for the role of paleoconservative ideologist- in-chief. He is the very opposite of a systematic, deliberate thinker.”

The Truth: Fleming repudiates any role as ideologue (much less “ideologist”), but he has carried out systematic classical scholarship on difficult philological subjects and written two academic books (one published and one about to be) on moral and political philosophy. His theories may be entirely wrong, but they are both consistent and systematic. If Frum read books instead of web logs, he would know this.

Frum’s Lie: Richard Neuahaus was fired by Fleming because of antisemitic remarks and the “paleos exploded in dumbfounded rage when the foundations that had been supporting Neuahaus’s work refused to switch the money over to them instead.”

The Truth: Neuhaus was fired by Institute president Allan Carlson, vice president Michael Warder, and board member George O’Neil. Fleming was not consulted or even informed of the matter until it was a fait accompli (a French remark!). The ever-ambitious Neuhaus was trying to take over the Institute, using friends like Norman Podhoretz and Peter Berger to exert pressure, much as he was simultaneously “taking over” Ethics and Public Policy for his protégé George Weigel. Neuhaus, by his own admission, violated a signed agreement to refrain from badmouthing The Rockford Institute and continued to spend Institute money without proper authorization. Neither Jewish questions nor Israel had been so much as discussed in the magazine, and the “classic language of anti-Semitism” used in the magazine was employed by historians writing articles on Celts and the Volga Germans—the latter by the liberal feminist and friend of the Podhoretzes, Jean Elshtain. People like Frum continue to repeat Neuhaus’s entirely fictional version of the dispute, though the truth is not difficult to establish. The dispute over foundation money concerned contracted and promised gifts, some of which had already been spent on Neuhaus’s activities. The TRI board made the correct decision in terminating Neuhaus, and, left to his own devices, Allan Carlson would have handled the situation with diplomacy and tact. Unfortunately, the "raid" was led by an over-exuberant board member and an unnecessarily aggressive vice president. Although never very fond of Richard Neuhaus, Fleming regarded the manner of his firing as unprofessional. Even an enemy deserves to be treated with respect, especially an enemy who had reached the stature of Richard Neuhaus. Upon becoming Institute president, one of Fleming's first acts was to ask his board of directors for permission to return Neuhaus’s papers that had been seized in the raid on his office.

Frum’s Lie: That Chronicles' defense of Christian Serbs in Kosovo resulted in loss of circulation.

The Fact: The neoconservative attack on our funding forced us to abandon all promotion of the magazine for many years. Our coverage of the neoconservative-backed war against Balkan Christians and our opposition to Islamic fundamentalism in Europe has gained new readers, friends, and supporters.

We have posted a link to Frum’s article. Will the NR bratpack have the courage to post a link to our response?

thoughtcriminal writes: "Chronicles sets the record straight."

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TexasAnarch03-23-03, 03:40
In addition (to the lies told about Chronicles)

Frum documents, but cannot grasp the enormous impact of anti-Jewishness on politics these days -- in general (left and right; at home and abroad); but in particular in America's heartland, and the strain of patriotism that traces back through 1855 - 1800 (1638).

It is preferable to speak of "Jewishness" rather than of "Jews" in discussing this impact (though it is certainly Jews who archtypically manifest Jewishness; though neither exclusively, nor inclusively of all). The fact is, some Jews dislike Jewishness, and they shouldn't be tagged as "self-hating" for that. They are rejecting the claims of ancestral blood-identity controlling their individual lives, and that is American

A definition-in-use would be: the qualities and behaviors manifest by those who relate to their blood-ancestry religiously in Absolute terms (referring to the Bible for justification: "people of the Book") and who seek to reproduce that way of being in perpetuity, in Israel, with Jerusalem as its captol.

This definition applies to the particular individual neocon political figures often cited in this OD forum thread (Kristol, Podhetz, etc.) who have admitedly (see Goldberg's recent articles) pursued this agenda: consistently, aggressively, and without open opposition, through the election of Bush. Frum may have been present at a meeting in '86 where Buchanan threw the dead rabbit into Republicanism, with Jews, but it took tragedies such as "9/11", "weaponized anthrax", "D.C. sniper", "Columbia" to really bring home the question: DID WE -- OR ANYONE ELSE, LEAST OF ALL THE IRAQI PEOPLE -- NEED
SHOCK AND AWE ?

I claim that it has been Jewishness, in agenda, energy, planning, systematic prosecuting this hi-tech robotic bleitzkrieg unleashed on human beings over there. SHOCK -- blasts shattering the nervous system. AWE -- at the Mighty Force of the U.S. Military Machine following up. SHOCK - AWE. The follow up, itself, to [B]co-opting America's public God-use, via the elected president's "faith" agenda; preempting patriotic opposition's use of "Christianity", linking it for ideological-political purposes with "Judeo-Christian" to identify the cause for which this nation wages war. This usurpation was tricked into the mainstream of American communication without historical precedent -- taking us into war for their "God"?--I dont think so. For which reason Pat Buchanan used the phrase "forced conscription" in his March article on neocons. This is Jewishness tricking its way into our blood stream: the identical signs, sacred symbols, moments of depth of remembrance, used to bring this cruel and unusual PSYOPS DEVASTATION. As if they've got us to thibnking we were God's chosen people, too, like them, with the right -- no, more: obligation -- to utterly negate and destroy what little integrity of life and way of being Iraq might have had, if it were not for William Casey, Ronald Reagan, Elliot Abrams, Oliver North, Richare Perle... for starters.

And every pathological liar and psychotic killer who voted for them --that is to say, who voted Republican. George Will is right. Every one of you has known all along it would come to this -- you were giving permisiion to kill Iraq from day 0 of the Annointment; before. Tools of Jewishness, youself! I am glad to join those who refused to vote. At least I can tell the soldiers and their families we can look forward to meeting with tomorrow, in sorrow, "It isn't my fault -- its theirs."

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Centinel03-23-03, 18:53
Frum documents, but cannot grasp the enormous impact of anti-Jewishness on politics these days -- in general (left and right; at home and abroad); but in particular in America's heartland

To which part of the heartland do you refer? Texas, Oklahoma and Dixie are full of Scopes Monkey Trial dispensationalists raising red heifers and waving Israeli flags.

Rust Belt and northern plains you might have a case, since amillenial Catholics, Orthodox, Lutherans and Presbyterians are more prevalent there. These were also the states hit hardest in the 80's farm crisis, when people started asking questions about the bankers foreclosing on their property.

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TexasAnarch03-24-03, 02:16
Excellent. I'll try to rise to the occassion, if limply.

As you know, I "do" sign-use. Deconstruct communicated content. Actually feel closest intellectual kin, in Austria-Germany circa 1920', to Ludwig Wittgenstein and the logical positivists (particularly M. Schlick; the Brits A.J. Ayer was a copy). In the Soviet system, to Vygotsky and early theorists. Evocation of racial memory is a big deal in all this, but, metaphysically -- and as a phrase it seems designed to subsume a questionable theory of time -- whatever was past was then, this is now. I do think we carry agendae in our blood, but are not bound by it totally unless we alow ourselves to be -- whereas religious Judaism starts from the reverse.

I can philosophize through your use of "God" only by psychologizing it. That is, bringing its use into the present (for whoever uses it, as an "actual occassion" - Whitehead). My use: English. I can project what Hebrew and Greek speaking people intended their respective all-containing nominative ("YHWH", "THEOS", if these are correct translations) to communicate, but that is something I have had to learn, just as learning what was supposed to be communicated by it through the colonials to America today.
And similarly for every person, nez pas? This is assuming that words mean (=communicate) what we mean by them, involving the contemporary processes of producing and sustaining their tokens. If, by proper approach (study, learning, discipline) one arrives at text -- true or false assertions about the nature of the universe or anything in it -- in agreement with their father's understanding (and of their's, etc. ad indef.) -- perhaps even surprassing it, as good fathers strain to create conditions for achieving -- more power to them. Literally. But they are still who they are; jes' po' blackass chillun tryin' squeakby down here. Don' want no letover Canadian Frum pudding for politics. With you 1000%.

Where we disagree metaphysically, I suspect, is on the lidght-spirit question. Our ancestors didn't understand light, which we see by. It was "in the ayre", like phogistin was in things that burned. The link Paul made between Jerusalem and Athens, via his 13th disciple complex, would reproduce itself along this gradient, right? So their use of "spirit" (=rescuing it from levitators and snake charmers -- not that there is anythng wrong with them, mind you), would include this as objective grounding. That puts a Hegelian twist on the metaphysics of the situation, as the Greek tradition -- not just its Theos, but its balanced position in regard to the psychological opposites -- de-'personalizes' (de-mythologizing, some would say, following Bultmann, but no doubt some of those old 'mythic' thind are true, not just psychological.)

I appreciate your bringing discussion to this point:

Gentiles* still haven't decided which God - the one described* by Plato ("the Good) or the one described* by the Jews (the whole earth shall be consumed by the fire of my jeaousy") - they worship. On such indecision hangs our fate.

It permits me to add: 1. I reject "Gentile" as a term of self-reference, and urge all Protestants to do so, also; it is a European, essentially Judenkeitich contrast, conviently perpetuated by Catholic way of designating groups through blood-identities. As Adams (John) said to Howe, "Call me what you like, sir; I shall try to please your expectation in response, as well as it is in me to do so, so long as it is not 'a subject' of anybody's "majesty"" -- which is what it feels like to get called "Gentile". 2. 1638 would be the day the Peace of Westphalia is historically recognized as settling the 30 years war, which establised among modern nation states a polity based on state interests vs. confession -- which the absurd recognition of the patch of ground called "Israel" as a "nation" reverses (if this is what you mean elsewhere by "old Jewishness"). There is definite Hapsbugian hungry-for 0ld-style, Old Father empire ways of yore coming into play here, residue from times earlier that the modern period, feeding and eating off judenkeit -- using that remnant of British royal enamorment with crusades in the Holy Land to save Jews. (Weren't we for Cromwell? -- didn't Presbyterians do good to pont out free will -- you can't expect everyone to be Jesus.)

**3. I don't view these sign-uses as "descriptions" of a "single thing", and regard the products of so-called "argumetns for the existence of God" as self-contradictory, and self-refuting psychological closures when seriously asserted. They lead to "Closure under self-contradiction" (aka fanaticism): asserting as Absolute, eternal fact that such and such is the case with regard to some text for "God" --- knowing what it means, and having evening personal chats therewith, as Creator of the beelions and beelions of stars .. not do I suppose anyone really means to do that when they use the term in their churches, its just a kind of politcal form of insanity imposed by whoever would take away their American-Greek legacy. Let the describers describe, wintermute, or you wii have this nation voting on God, and Falwell wins, because he's turned Liberty into an educational institution.

If time were taken as a solid, the last quarter of 0-2000 ad would be the coming of the age of the Spirit, in Hegelian term. As in, human: recoving Greek understanding of man in Europe. But this would be by unfolding discovery of the same light as is always in the air, which is a truly universal thing. The story is, it can even be capable of reaching the human brain, otherwise than by reflecting off extgernal surfaces. But that takes a special "oxygen" in the bloodstream, not readily available.

I don't think Bohemia, or Woodstock, were Jewish.

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TexasAnarch03-24-03, 13:46
I am absolutely with farmers. Its these agri-business types -- I associate them with Brown and Root; some, anyway; I now they helped corrupt West Texas, and that Houston crowd is absolutely off the wall, always has been -- that have gone with the Republicans (not that one could go back with the Dems for federal politics)

I understand it, but categorically reject it, and view it as Limbaughism stretched to take advantage of farmer's personal impotence in politics -- most of 'em because they are, in fact, as you put it:

..full of Scopes Monkey Trial dispensationalists raising red heiffers and waving Israeli flags

If you can think "red states" minus Jewishdiekeitnisch (trying to capture that old-world flavor-- undoubtedly a reality to which wintermute has properly called to our attention -- about the penomenon without losing that 'made in America' edge) -- that's heartland. I appreciate the ruggedness and texture of amillenialists, as long as they don't help the others imminentize the eschaton (not original phrase -- N. Mailer, I think, the less-than-creep) at America's expense. As it is, I can't feel as if the Pope and his advisors did all they ought to have done if this really isn't a just war, as he pronounced, having included the Kosovo thing (which started a lot of this mess with Muslims) to be in the opposite category. If the UN is irrelevant, what is he? Just asking.

Makes me think they read tea leaves over there in the Vatican prepared by Pataki, Guiliani, Scorcese, FDNY, Mueller, Tenant, Scalia (not necessarily in that order), plus Estrada and Clarence Thomas to show this new Shabos heysoositscki the ropes. What about you? Persnally, I don't thnk they could even carry Minnesota, and it has been demonstrated that any half wit can carry Minnesota. Will Reagangooniskis be with 'em? 'r agin' 'em? The Force? or The Farce? Pluto, the Greek philosopher, wants to know. They'll be coming through the Blue states to get the Reds. From the periphery to the heartland, after poisoning the marrow. That's the way it always goes. First your money, then your clothes.

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